WHAT IS JIU-JITSU?

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Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - Gracie Jiu Jitsu

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) is a martial art and combat sport that focuses on grappling and especially ground fighting with the goal of gaining a dominant position from which to force an attacker to submit. The system is based a modified version of traditional Japanese Jujutsu called "Jiu-do" which is based on the idea of soft overcoming the hard. In other words, smaller, weaker person using leverage and proper technique to defend themselves against a bigger, stronger assailant. BJJ can be trained for self defense, sport grappling tournaments (gi and no-gi) and mixed martial arts (MMA) competition. Sparring and live drilling play a major role in training, and a premium is placed on performance, especially in competition. Today, the major difference of Gracie/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu styles lies between Helio Gracie's Traditional Gracie Jiu-Jitsu for self-defense and Sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu designed for point competition. As a student, make sure to verify the credentials, lineage, and background of your possible instructors.

The art began when Mitsuyo Maeda, a master of Japanese jujitsu and judo/Jiu-do, which was the changing of jujutsu training methods to a non-lethal degree and also where Helio Gracie got the word "jiu" from. Maeda immigrated to Brazil where he taught his system to Carlos Gracie, who passed it on to his younger brother Helio. The brothers trained many of their sons, who now carry on the family tradition today. The Gracie family continued to develop the system throughout the 20th century, often fighting vale tudo matches (precursors to modern MMA), during which it gained its focus on ground fighting and refined its techniques.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu came to prominence in the United States when Royce Gracie won the first, second and fourth Ultimate Fighting Championships in the earlier 90s. It has since become a staple art for many MMA fighters and is largely credited for bringing wide-spread attention to the aspect of ground fighting. Sport BJJ tournaments continue to grow in popularity worldwide and have given rise to no-gi submission grappling tournaments, such as ADCC.

The art is sometimes referred to as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (GJJ) but this name is trademarked by Rorion Gracie and specifically refers to the style taught by him and his selected teachers. Other members of the Gracie family often call their style by personalized names, such as Charles Gracie Jiu-Jitsu or Renzo Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, and similarly, the Machado brothers call their style Machado Jiu-Jitsu (MJJ). While each style and its instructors have their own unique aspects, they are regarded as variations of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Jiu-jitsu arrived in Brazil when Mitsuyo Maeda, a Japanese Jujutsu Master and Judoka, first introduced it to the Gracie clan during his visit to Brazil with the hopes of establishing a Japanese colony in the country. It continued to be developed by the Gracies throughout the 20th century.

The most important factor that differentiates Brazilian Jiu-jitsu from Judo and Japanese Jujitsu is that BJJ places a decided emphasis on ground fighting. While Japanese Jujutsu and Judo do incorporate training in ground fighting (newaza), with some schools favoring more ground techniques than others, few Japanese schools put as much emphasis on ground techniques as BJJ. Some, if not the majority, of BJJ schools overlook most throwing techniques entirely. Such a training regime is responsible for the great advances in ground fighting introduced by Brazilian Jiu-jitsu (according to rumor). In addition, like Judo, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu encourages "randori" or free sparring against a live, resisting opponent. Thus, students have an opportunity to test their skills and develop them under realistic conditions, with minimal risk of injury.

Overall, while most Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu techniques can be traced back to traditional Judo, the major difference(see jujutsu or judo) is that BJJ prides on ground positioning and grappling transitions to set-up submission holds; most BJJ schools teach "position before submission".

History

A Japanese jujitsu expert and judoka, prizefighter, and former member of the Kodokan named Mitsuyo Maeda, also known as Count Koma, immigrated to Brazil in the 1910s where an influential businessman named Gastão Gracie helped him get established. In return for his aid, Maeda taught the fighting art of Jujitsu to Gastão's son Carlos, who then taught the art to his brothers, including Hélio Gracie. Hélio had the opportunity to teach a class one day while Carlos was absent. He soon realized that most of the techniques could be adapted in a way to increase leverage therefore minimizing the force needed to execute the moves. Through Hélio's experiments early on, and constant technical refinement in training and real fighting, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we know it today was created. Some argue that the differences are more in culture and moral goals than in the physical principles and techniques of BJJ; however, the considerable differences between BJJ and the Japanese styles include the use of strikes on the ground, and holds and joint locks forbidden in sport Judo but taught in practical Judo or traditional Jujutsu.

Other contributing factors to the stylistic divergence of BJJ include the Gracie's desire to create a national martial art, the influence of Brazilian culture, the Gracies emphasis on full-contact fighting and self-defense, the post-World War II closing of the Kodokan by the American Occupation Authority (which were only allowed to reopen on the condition that emphasis be shifted towards sport), as well as the Gracies' additions to the body of technique and theories regarding self-defense based on Chinese principles of leverage (admitted in an interview), martial arts and training methods; and, more recently, the influence of mixed-martial-arts competitions such as the Ultimate Fighting Championship and PRIDE Fighting Championship.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu first became internationally prominent in the martial arts community in the 1990s, when Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu expert Royce Gracie won several single elimination martial arts tournaments called the Ultimate Fighting Championships against sometimes much larger opponents who were practicing other styles, including boxing, shoot-fighting, karate, judo, tae kwon do and wrestling.

Helio competed in several judo competitions where most ended in a draw, one win, and one in defeat by Masahiko Kimura, whose name was placed on top of the arm lock used to defeat Helio officially. In a much later interview, Helio admitted that he was choked unconscious early in the fight but regained consciousness quickly and avoided losing early. Kimura's victory over Helio Kimura was impressed with Helio's performance and invited Helio to teach in Japan alongside Kimura. Today, Helio teaches occasionally in Brazil and accompanies his sons during fights.

Techniques

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is designed for one-on-one fighting. It emphasizes ground fighting techniques and submission holds involving joint-locks and chokeholds also found in numerous other arts with or without groundfighting emphasis. The premise is that most of the advantage of a larger, stronger opponent comes from superior reach and more powerful strikes, both of which are sometimes negated if grappling on the ground. BJJ includes many (Judo)techniques to throw or tackle opponents to the ground which revolve around using primary bases of the body, the hips and shoulders, which are difficult to counter, unless trained to neutralize the movements of the hips and shoulders or cancel them out by avoiding or misguiding their trajectory. Once the opponent is on the ground, a number of maneuvers (and counter-maneuvers) are available to manipulate the opponent into suitable position for the application of a planned submission hold. This system of maneuvering and manipulation can be likened to a form of kinetic chess when utilized by two experienced practitioners. A submission hold is the equivalent of checkmate.

Submission holds can be grouped into two broad categories: joint locks and chokes. Joint locks typically involve isolating an opponent's limb and creating a lever with your own body position which will force the joint to move past its normal range of motion. Pressure should be increased in a controlled manner and released if the opponent cannot escape the hold and signals defeat by submitting. The commonly accepted form of submission is to tap the opponent, gym mat, or even yourself, three times. Verbal submission is also acceptable but less common. (refer to "See also" for more information on leverages and pressure points)

Alternatively, one could apply a choke hold, disrupting the blood supply to the brain, causing unconsciousness if the opponent refuses to tap out.

Most BJJ "chokes" involve constriction of the carotid artery (causing hypoxia). This differs from the more instinctive choking movements which generally involve constriction of the windpipe (causing asphyxia). Though this distinction may at first seem subtle it is in fact significant (commonly referred to as "blood" and "air" chokes respectively). Air chokes are highly inefficient and may result in damage to the opponent's trachea, sometimes even resulting in death. In contrast, blood chokes directly cut the flow of blood off to the opponent's brain causing a rapid loss of consciousness without damaging the internal structure. Being "choked-out" in this way is actually relatively safe as long as the choke is released soon after unconsciousness, letting blood (and therefore oxygen) back into the brain before the damages of oxygen deprivation begin. However, it should not be practiced in an unsupervised atmosphere.

The prevalence of the dangerous "air" chokes has actually led to the banning of chokeholds from some United States police departments. Because of the negative legal connotations of the words choke and even strangulation one is advised to use the term "lateral vascular restraint" when describing a blood choke used in a self-defense situation.

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's limitation to submissions without the addition of strikes while training allows practitioners to practice at full speed and almost full power, resembling the effort used in a real competition.

While many joint locks are permitted, most competitions bar or restrict some or all joint locks involving the knees and spine. The reasoning behind this being that the angles of manipulation required to cause pain are nearly the same to cause serious injury. Joint locks that require a twisting motion of the knee (called twisting knee locks or twisting knee bars) are usually banned in competitions as successfully completing the move nearly always results in permanent damage that requires surgery. Similarly, joint manipulations of the spine are typically barred due to the inherent danger of crushing or mis-aligning cervical vertebrae. In Brazil, certain locks involving the knees and ankles are only allowed in competition starting at the brown belt. Any competitor from white to purple belt who tries any of these locks may be disqualified.

However, most joint locks involving the wrist, elbow, shoulder or ankle are permitted as there is a great deal more flexibility in those joints and are safe to use under tournament conditions. Also, in lower levels of competition, some fighters practice moves whose sole purpose is to inflict pain upon their opponent, in the hope that they will tap out. This includes driving knuckles into pressure points, holding their opponent's head in order to tire out the neck (called the "can opener" or kubi-hishigi) and putting body weight on top of the sternum, floating ribs, or similarly sensitive bones. These moves are not true submission moves and are avoided or brutally countered in middle to upper levels of competition. Generally, they are used as distractions.

The main emphasis in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is to dominate the opponent through application of technique and force them to quit (submit). By using the techniques of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, a smaller practitioner, male or female, can control much larger and stronger opponents and actually force the larger opponent to submit.

Interview With Grand Master Helio gracie

This interview was conducted in 1994 just after the UFC 3, but was published for the first time on May 1, 2002 in Japan. Nishi Yoshinori participated in a seminar held one day before the Ultimate in Charlotte. What drew attention there was Helio Gracie who was teaching Nishi with care. On September 15, four days later, Nishi visited the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy owned by Rorion in Los Angeles. Helio, who postponed his return to Brazil in expectation of his visit, was waiting for him there. Nishi took a private lesson on the advice of Rorion. When the one-hour training was finished, Helio came to Nishi saying "there is something I want to show you." What was put in front of Nishi were rare pictures of his legendary fight with Masahiko Kimura, the master. For more information on Masahiko Kimura please see this excerpt from his autobiography "My Judo"  Nishi: What valuable pictures they are! I don't think even the wife of Kimura has pictures like these. Well, what kind of rule was this fight done under? Was it the vale tudo rule? Helio: No, it was the jiu-jitsu rule. Nishi: Then, you didn't exchange blows with Kimura, did you? Helio: That's right. We could do anything except kicks and punches. There were no points and no time limits. But when I challenged Kimura and we met together for the first time, he seemed to be very surprised when he saw how small I was (laugh). So I was told to fight with a man named Kato at first. Nishi: Then, did you fight with a Japanese Judo-ka before the fight with Kimura? Helio: Yes, I did. He had 20 kg. heavier than me and was strongly built. But I was able to win by good luck. Rorion: My father finished Kato with a choke in less than six minutes (see a photo from the match). So Kimura accepted my father's challenge. But the people around strongly objected to it. It seemed that especially uncle Carlos didn't want him to do it. Nishi: Did the people around think that Kimura was more than a match for you from the beginning? Helio: Not only the people around, but also I myself thought that nobody in the world could defeat Kimura. (laugh) Especially my brother Carlos was worried that I would never give up under any condition. He thought I would get seriously injured. So he gave me permission to fight with Kimura on the condition that I would "give-up" without fail. Regret? I didn't regret it at all either before or after the fight. For me who aimed at jiu-jitsu at that time, fear was surpassed by desire to know what on earth such a strong man like Kimura would do in the fight--he might open the door to an unknown world for me. I heard that you are the same type of person too. Nishi: Yes, I am. Helio seemed to know that Nishi had fought with Rickson [Mr. Nishi faced Rickson in Vale Tudo Japan Open 95 and was defeated by rear naked hadaka jime choke in the first round], and he has been fighting in kickboxing and karate events as well. It could be felt here and there in Helio's words that Helio was sympathizing with Nishi's action. Nishi: I would like to ask you something technical before the story about Kimura. What kind of style of jiu-jitsu was it you learned? Helio: I remember vaguely that my brother Carlos was learning it from Konde Koma (Kosei Maeda) around 1914. Anyway I was just four years old at that time. To tell the truth, I don't remember well the technique directly taught by Koma. Carlos opened the dojo in Rio when he was 25 years old, and I was watching the techniques that he had learned from Konde Koma. But I kept thinking about what a small and weak man like me should do to win, and developing the theory to control an opponent by technique. Rorion: It seems my father didn't teach it to anybody in the beginning. But one day he had to teach the training in place of uncle Carlos who was late for the class. My father was only 16 years old yet, but the improvements my father made in the techniques to control an opponent with a minimum power was persuasive enough to satisfy the students. Since it doesn't require power, it makes it possible for you to fight for 20 or 30 minutes. After that, it seems that uncle Carlos left the teaching to my father. Nishi: That has become the base of Gracie jiu-jitsu of the day, hasn't it? Was a style Mr. Carlos learned from Kosei Maeda centering on "kata"? Helio: There weren't so many techniques. Most techniques were something mainly based on power. But Konde Koma was always fighting in real fights, so a lot of tricks to win in a real fight were incorporated in his teaching. Nishi: Striking was also included, wasn't it? Helio: No, it wasn't included. Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world in Meiji period, and performed an open fight with a different style in each country. (However, Kodokan removed his name from the register in the later years.) But why did he call it jiu-jitsu, not judo in Brazil? Nishi has secretly thought that jiu-jitsu introduced to Brazil might be something like a variant form of judo. Nishi: Did Mr. Maeda call it jiu-jitsu, not judo from the beginning? Helio: I heard that Konde Koma called it jiu-jitsu. We didn't even know the word of judo itself until it came into Brazil. At that time (the time when jiu-jitsu was brought by Konde Koma), there were many Japanese immigrants and local people had a friendly relationship with them. I heard that they often helped Japanese people in many ways. So I think he taught us their traditional jiu-jitsu in return for it. Nishi: When judo came into Brazil, didn't you think it was similar to jiu-jitsu? Rorion: I have a strong impression about judo that judo is a sport where the objective is to throw the opponent to the ground using power. But I think maybe the original art is jiu-jitsu. When Japan lost in the World War II and America was occupying Japan, they taught the Americans judo, but not jiu-jitsu. In that sense, we were lucky to have been able to come in contact directly with jiu-jitsu first, rather than judo. Helio: (nodding to what Rorion said) They didn't teach the Americans the mind of the samurai. Nishi: It doesn't seem that judo itself was completely introduced to you. I wonder if Kosei Maeda introduced something he made up and called jiu-jitsu, or if it had originality as a result of the improvements made by Mr. Helio. It draws my interest very much. Then, when is the start of vale tudo? Helio: It was not something like vale tudo, but the first fight between different styles was in 1932 when I fought with an American wrestling fighter named Fred Ebert when I had 17 years old. He described himself as a world-class strong fighter. It seems that Fred Ebert was a fighter who took second place in the 95kg class in the world wrestling championship held in New York in l928. This coincides with the story of Helio who described him as a giant with 98kg, but it turns out to have been nearly 40kg difference in weight between them. Helio's weight was about 60kg. Nishi: How about the result? Helio: (with a frown) The fight started at 12:00 at midnight, and fought until 2:00 in the morning. But we were told to stop the fight by the police. Rorion: The fight lasted 2 hours and 10 minutes. To tell the truth, he was stopped to fight by the doctor then due to the high fever caused by a swelling. Anyway he had to undergo an urgent operation next day of the fight. Nishi: It sounds...... (breaking off in his speech) .....reckless....... Helio: I didn't want to be said that I avoided the fight under the pretext of the doctor-stop. That's all. However, I regret that we couldn't get the result. Nishi: What if Mr. Ebert is in good health and challenged you to do the sequel to the fight now? Helio: I will do it, of course! (laugh) But he might need some handicap because he was pretty older than me. For Helio, who has such a "never say die" attitude toward a fight as mentioned above, I wonder what came to his mind when he threw in the towel in the fight of Royce [vs. Sakuraba in Pride Grand Prix 2000], his son, with his own hand. I wanted to ask him about it. But maybe there was something wrong in the way I started to question saying "I am sorry for the result of Royce, but....", they stuck to the answer made by Rorion, who was voluntarily working as an interpreter, that "No matter how nice a car you drive, it sometimes happens to you to get out of the course due to a puncture. Neither Shamrock nor Royce lost to anybody this time." (Helio speaks only Portuguese, so the interview was done in such a way that at first Nishi's words were conveyed to Rorion in English, and then Rorion conveyed it to Helio in Portuguese) However, I felt like that I saw Helio's deep attachment to fights in difference in words between Helio, who used simple and clear words, and Rorion, who used a metaphor. Nishi: Mr. Helio, did you have a favorite technique other than jiu-jitsu? Helio: Does it mean a technique in striking? I was good at side kicks. I did it in my own way, but kick the body of the opponent using the heel. Don't ask me to demonstrate it here now! (laugh) Nishi: No! (laugh) You said it was your own way, but did you study it watching the move of karate? Helio: Karate? No. Judo came to Brazil around 1950-1960 and Karate was later than that, maybe around 1970. So I had no chance to study it. Besides when I saw karate for the first time, I didn't think it was effective for self-defense or kakuto art. Nishi: Well then, do you think kakutogi based on striking are not effective for all? Helio: Generally they are not, are they? I think you know about it much better than I do. Rorion: In a fight like the Ultimate, all you have to do about striking is to kill the distance. If you do it, then you can control the fight. Nishi: They are at a disadvantage under the rule of the Ultimate for sure, but I can't agree with you who say positively that they are not effective from the view point of self-defense and kakuto arts either. Then, when did you start fighting with striking? Helio: I don't remember clearly, but jiu-jitsu was considered something oriental in Brazil and there was some guy saying that he could defeat me in a street fight. So I accepted the fight with him including punches and kicks. Nishi: Unbelievable! (laugh) He must have sorely regretted his words after the contest.! Was that the beginning of vale tudo? Helio: Maybe so. I'm the one who started vale tudo. But we didn't call it vale tudo. It was a TV producer who decided to call it that. Nishi: A TV producer? Helio: That's right. I held style vs. style tournaments to spread jiu-jitsu. Of course, I won all of them. The producer found them interesting and decided to telecast them. The title of that program was Vale Tudo. Later the form was changed to one-match fight between a winner of the jiu-jitsu tournament (it was held under the original jiu-jitsu rule and striking was prohibited) and a challenger invited from a different style. This program started around 1960 and became very popular. It used to be aired every week at one time. Nishi: It is a model of the Ultimate. Anyway, I'm surprised to see that it was the title of the TV program, and vale tudo was performed every week. What an amazing country Brazil is. Helio: Many people were scared of punches. But since they watched the fights on TV, they started to understand that punches were good, but they could be nullified by using different techniques, and a small man like me could fight. Nishi: I was doing judo and was afraid of getting punched. That's why I started learning striking and still now I am studying. Mr. Helio, did you have any fear of getting punched? Helio: If I get punched, I feel happy and more guts. But I feel pain too. (laugh) So I developed the way of fighting to avoid to get punched. Nishi: And at first you keep the position not to get punched, then give the opponent punches whenever you want to. Helio: That's right (laugh). Nishi: How about a throw? Throwing is not effective either? Helio: No, it can be very effective at times. Anyway, a fearful throw by Kimura remains vividly in mind. It was very impressive to see that Kimura made the opponent KOed with one throw. When it was decided that I would fight with Kimura, I was careful about his throw. Nishi: Could you tell me more details about the fight with the master Kimura? Helio: Sure! Helio: In the beginning I carefully tried to find a breakthrough, but I was in his control as soon as we stood close to each other. I had no time to even hold or grapple him. What I barely could do was to avoid his perfect throw in such a way that I relaxed the strength of all my body and moved my position a little bit at the moment when Kimura tried to throw me and as a result Kimura lost his balance. I was taken into the ground, and I got choked at first. It was difficult to breathe. I felt it working enough so I was wondering if I should tap as I promised Carlos. Nishi: ? Helio: Well, this is what I've never told anybody before. It seems I went unconscious while I was thinking about what to do [give up or not]. Naturally all the staff let alone Nishi were surprised to hear that, but what was more impressive than that was the shocked expression on Rorion's face. Helio: If Kimura had continued to choke me, I would have died for sure. But since I didn't give up, Kimura let go of the choke and went into the next technique. Being released from the choke and the pain from the next technique revived me and I continued to fight. Kimura went to his grave without ever knowing the fact that I was finished. If possible, I wish I could have talked about the fight with him and let him know about it. Nishi: I will tell his wife without fail. Helio: Thank you. But then, Kimura was strong....... strong and a gentleman. He spoke in my ear in Japanese "good, good" while catching me with arm-lock. I don't understand Japanese at all, but strangely I was encouraged by his voice. It gave me power. (laugh) I was anxious about it, so I asked him later. He said, "I was admiring your heart." Nishi: Kimura also talked about the fight with Mr. Helio in his book, and says that you had a strong heart. Helio: Same to him. I think I got the authentic samurai spirit from him. I might have been Japanese in a previous life. Nishi: By the way, what shall I do with my plan? I was prepared to do a challenge match here aiming at defeating a Gracie, but I touched the heart of the master Kimura in the talk with Mr. Helio. Now I've had one more teacher, Mr. Helio. Indeed, I must have been Brazilian in a previous life. Helio: Thank you. If you continue to train, you will be the champion in a jiu-jitsu tournament in Brazil for sure. Age? No problem. I am 82 years old now, but martial arts are what you search for at the risk of your whole life.  Nishi: What valuable pictures they are! I don't think even the wife of Kimura has pictures like these. Well, what kind of rule was this fight done under? Was it the vale tudo rule? Helio: No, it was the jiu-jitsu rule. Nishi: Then, you didn't exchange blows with Kimura, did you? Helio: That's right. We could do anything except kicks and punches. There were no points and no time limits. But when I challenged Kimura and we met together for the first time, he seemed to be very surprised when he saw how small I was (laugh). So I was told to fight with a man named Kato at first. Nishi: Then, did you fight with a Japanese Judo-ka before the fight with Kimura? Helio: Yes, I did. He had 20 kg. heavier than me and was strongly built. But I was able to win by good luck. Rorion: My father finished Kato with a choke in less than six minutes (see a photo from the match). So Kimura accepted my father's challenge. But the people around strongly objected to it. It seemed that especially uncle Carlos didn't want him to do it. Nishi: Did the people around think that Kimura was more than a match for you from the beginning? Helio: Not only the people around, but also I myself thought that nobody in the world could defeat Kimura. (laugh) Especially my brother Carlos was worried that I would never give up under any condition. He thought I would get seriously injured. So he gave me permission to fight with Kimura on the condition that I would "give-up" without fail. Regret? I didn't regret it at all either before or after the fight. For me who aimed at jiu-jitsu at that time, fear was surpassed by desire to know what on earth such a strong man like Kimura would do in the fight--he might open the door to an unknown world for me. I heard that you are the same type of person too. Nishi: Yes, I am. Helio seemed to know that Nishi had fought with Rickson [Mr. Nishi faced Rickson in Vale Tudo Japan Open 95 and was defeated by rear naked hadaka jime choke in the first round], and he has been fighting in kickboxing and karate events as well. It could be felt here and there in Helio's words that Helio was sympathizing with Nishi's action. Nishi: I would like to ask you something technical before the story about Kimura. What kind of style of jiu-jitsu was it you learned? Helio: I remember vaguely that my brother Carlos was learning it from Konde Koma (Kosei Maeda) around 1914. Anyway I was just four years old at that time. To tell the truth, I don't remember well the technique directly taught by Koma. Carlos opened the dojo in Rio when he was 25 years old, and I was watching the techniques that he had learned from Konde Koma. But I kept thinking about what a small and weak man like me should do to win, and developing the theory to control an opponent by technique. Rorion: It seems my father didn't teach it to anybody in the beginning. But one day he had to teach the training in place of uncle Carlos who was late for the class. My father was only 16 years old yet, but the improvements my father made in the techniques to control an opponent with a minimum power was persuasive enough to satisfy the students. Since it doesn't require power, it makes it possible for you to fight for 20 or 30 minutes. After that, it seems that uncle Carlos left the teaching to my father. Nishi: That has become the base of Gracie jiu-jitsu of the day, hasn't it? Was a style Mr. Carlos learned from Kosei Maeda centering on "kata"? Helio: There weren't so many techniques. Most techniques were something mainly based on power. But Konde Koma was always fighting in real fights, so a lot of tricks to win in a real fight were incorporated in his teaching. Nishi: Striking was also included, wasn't it? Helio: No, it wasn't included. Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world in Meiji period, and performed an open fight with a different style in each country. (However, Kodokan removed his name from the register in the later years.) But why did he call it jiu-jitsu, not judo in Brazil? Nishi has secretly thought that jiu-jitsu introduced to Brazil might be something like a variant form of judo. Nishi: Did Mr. Maeda call it jiu-jitsu, not judo from the beginning? Helio: I heard that Konde Koma called it jiu-jitsu. We didn't even know the word of judo itself until it came into Brazil. At that time (the time when jiu-jitsu was brought by Konde Koma), there were many Japanese immigrants and local people had a friendly relationship with them. I heard that they often helped Japanese people in many ways. So I think he taught us their traditional jiu-jitsu in return for it. Nishi: When judo came into Brazil, didn't you think it was similar to jiu-jitsu? Rorion: I have a strong impression about judo that judo is a sport where the objective is to throw the opponent to the ground using power. But I think maybe the original art is jiu-jitsu. When Japan lost in the World War II and America was occupying Japan, they taught the Americans judo, but not jiu-jitsu. In that sense, we were lucky to have been able to come in contact directly with jiu-jitsu first, rather than judo. Helio: (nodding to what Rorion said) They didn't teach the Americans the mind of the samurai. Nishi: It doesn't seem that judo itself was completely introduced to you. I wonder if Kosei Maeda introduced something he made up and called jiu-jitsu, or if it had originality as a result of the improvements made by Mr. Helio. It draws my interest very much. Then, when is the start of vale tudo? Helio: It was not something like vale tudo, but the first fight between different styles was in 1932 when I fought with an American wrestling fighter named Fred Ebert when I had 17 years old. He described himself as a world-class strong fighter. It seems that Fred Ebert was a fighter who took second place in the 95kg class in the world wrestling championship held in New York in l928. This coincides with the story of Helio who described him as a giant with 98kg, but it turns out to have been nearly 40kg difference in weight between them. Helio's weight was about 60kg. Nishi: How about the result? Helio: (with a frown) The fight started at 12:00 at midnight, and fought until 2:00 in the morning. But we were told to stop the fight by the police. Rorion: The fight lasted 2 hours and 10 minutes. To tell the truth, he was stopped to fight by the doctor then due to the high fever caused by a swelling. Anyway he had to undergo an urgent operation next day of the fight. Nishi: It sounds...... (breaking off in his speech) .....reckless....... Helio: I didn't want to be said that I avoided the fight under the pretext of the doctor-stop. That's all. However, I regret that we couldn't get the result. Nishi: What if Mr. Ebert is in good health and challenged you to do the sequel to the fight now? Helio: I will do it, of course! (laugh) But he might need some handicap because he was pretty older than me. For Helio, who has such a "never say die" attitude toward a fight as mentioned above, I wonder what came to his mind when he threw in the towel in the fight of Royce [vs. Sakuraba in Pride Grand Prix 2000], his son, with his own hand. I wanted to ask him about it. But maybe there was something wrong in the way I started to question saying "I am sorry for the result of Royce, but....", they stuck to the answer made by Rorion, who was voluntarily working as an interpreter, that "No matter how nice a car you drive, it sometimes happens to you to get out of the course due to a puncture. Neither Shamrock nor Royce lost to anybody this time." (Helio speaks only Portuguese, so the interview was done in such a way that at first Nishi's words were conveyed to Rorion in English, and then Rorion conveyed it to Helio in Portuguese) However, I felt like that I saw Helio's deep attachment to fights in difference in words between Helio, who used simple and clear words, and Rorion, who used a metaphor. Nishi: Mr. Helio, did you have a favorite technique other than jiu-jitsu? Helio: Does it mean a technique in striking? I was good at side kicks. I did it in my own way, but kick the body of the opponent using the heel. Don't ask me to demonstrate it here now! (laugh) Nishi: No! (laugh) You said it was your own way, but did you study it watching the move of karate? Helio: Karate? No. Judo came to Brazil around 1950-1960 and Karate was later than that, maybe around 1970. So I had no chance to study it. Besides when I saw karate for the first time, I didn't think it was effective for self-defense or kakuto art. Nishi: Well then, do you think kakutogi based on striking are not effective for all? Helio: Generally they are not, are they? I think you know about it much better than I do. Rorion: In a fight like the Ultimate, all you have to do about striking is to kill the distance. If you do it, then you can control the fight. Nishi: They are at a disadvantage under the rule of the Ultimate for sure, but I can't agree with you who say positively that they are not effective from the view point of self-defense and kakuto arts either. Then, when did you start fighting with striking? Helio: I don't remember clearly, but jiu-jitsu was considered something oriental in Brazil and there was some guy saying that he could defeat me in a street fight. So I accepted the fight with him including punches and kicks. Nishi: Unbelievable! (laugh) He must have sorely regretted his words after the contest.! Was that the beginning of vale tudo? Helio: Maybe so. I'm the one who started vale tudo. But we didn't call it vale tudo. It was a TV producer who decided to call it that. Nishi: A TV producer? Helio: That's right. I held style vs. style tournaments to spread jiu-jitsu. Of course, I won all of them. The producer found them interesting and decided to telecast them. The title of that program was Vale Tudo. Later the form was changed to one-match fight between a winner of the jiu-jitsu tournament (it was held under the original jiu-jitsu rule and striking was prohibited) and a challenger invited from a different style. This program started around 1960 and became very popular. It used to be aired every week at one time. Nishi: It is a model of the Ultimate. Anyway, I'm surprised to see that it was the title of the TV program, and vale tudo was performed every week. What an amazing country Brazil is. Helio: Many people were scared of punches. But since they watched the fights on TV, they started to understand that punches were good, but they could be nullified by using different techniques, and a small man like me could fight. Nishi: I was doing judo and was afraid of getting punched. That's why I started learning striking and still now I am studying. Mr. Helio, did you have any fear of getting punched? Helio: If I get punched, I feel happy and more guts. But I feel pain too. (laugh) So I developed the way of fighting to avoid to get punched. Nishi: And at first you keep the position not to get punched, then give the opponent punches whenever you want to. Helio: That's right (laugh). Nishi: How about a throw? Throwing is not effective either? Helio: No, it can be very effective at times. Anyway, a fearful throw by Kimura remains vividly in mind. It was very impressive to see that Kimura made the opponent KOed with one throw. When it was decided that I would fight with Kimura, I was careful about his throw. Nishi: Could you tell me more details about the fight with the master Kimura? Helio: Sure! Helio: In the beginning I carefully tried to find a breakthrough, but I was in his control as soon as we stood close to each other. I had no time to even hold or grapple him. What I barely could do was to avoid his perfect throw in such a way that I relaxed the strength of all my body and moved my position a little bit at the moment when Kimura tried to throw me and as a result Kimura lost his balance. I was taken into the ground, and I got choked at first. It was difficult to breathe. I felt it working enough so I was wondering if I should tap as I promised Carlos. Nishi: ? Helio: Well, this is what I've never told anybody before. It seems I went unconscious while I was thinking about what to do [give up or not]. Naturally all the staff let alone Nishi were surprised to hear that, but what was more impressive than that was the shocked expression on Rorion's face. Helio: If Kimura had continued to choke me, I would have died for sure. But since I didn't give up, Kimura let go of the choke and went into the next technique. Being released from the choke and the pain from the next technique revived me and I continued to fight. Kimura went to his grave without ever knowing the fact that I was finished. If possible, I wish I could have talked about the fight with him and let him know about it. Nishi: I will tell his wife without fail. Helio: Thank you. But then, Kimura was strong....... strong and a gentleman. He spoke in my ear in Japanese "good, good" while catching me with arm-lock. I don't understand Japanese at all, but strangely I was encouraged by his voice. It gave me power. (laugh) I was anxious about it, so I asked him later. He said, "I was admiring your heart." Nishi: Kimura also talked about the fight with Mr. Helio in his book, and says that you had a strong heart. Helio: Same to him. I think I got the authentic samurai spirit from him. I might have been Japanese in a previous life. Nishi: By the way, what shall I do with my plan? I was prepared to do a challenge match here aiming at defeating a Gracie, but I touched the heart of the master Kimura in the talk with Mr. Helio. Now I've had one more teacher, Mr. Helio. Indeed, I must have been Brazilian in a previous life. Helio: Thank you. If you continue to train, you will be the champion in a jiu-jitsu tournament in Brazil for sure. Age? No problem. I am 82 years old now, but martial arts are what you search for at the risk of your whole life.  Nishi: What valuable pictures they are! I don't think even the wife of Kimura has pictures like these. Well, what kind of rule was this fight done under? Was it the vale tudo rule? Helio: No, it was the jiu-jitsu rule. Nishi: Then, you didn't exchange blows with Kimura, did you? Helio: That's right. We could do anything except kicks and punches. There were no points and no time limits. But when I challenged Kimura and we met together for the first time, he seemed to be very surprised when he saw how small I was (laugh). So I was told to fight with a man named Kato at first. Nishi: Then, did you fight with a Japanese Judo-ka before the fight with Kimura? Helio: Yes, I did. He had 20 kg. heavier than me and was strongly built. But I was able to win by good luck. Rorion: My father finished Kato with a choke in less than six minutes (see a photo from the match). So Kimura accepted my father's challenge. But the people around strongly objected to it. It seemed that especially uncle Carlos didn't want him to do it. Nishi: Did the people around think that Kimura was more than a match for you from the beginning? Helio: Not only the people around, but also I myself thought that nobody in the world could defeat Kimura. (laugh) Especially my brother Carlos was worried that I would never give up under any condition. He thought I would get seriously injured. So he gave me permission to fight with Kimura on the condition that I would "give-up" without fail. Regret? I didn't regret it at all either before or after the fight. For me who aimed at jiu-jitsu at that time, fear was surpassed by desire to know what on earth such a strong man like Kimura would do in the fight--he might open the door to an unknown world for me. I heard that you are the same type of person too. Nishi: Yes, I am. Helio seemed to know that Nishi had fought with Rickson [Mr. Nishi faced Rickson in Vale Tudo Japan Open 95 and was defeated by rear naked hadaka jime choke in the first round], and he has been fighting in kickboxing and karate events as well. It could be felt here and there in Helio's words that Helio was sympathizing with Nishi's action. Nishi: I would like to ask you something technical before the story about Kimura. What kind of style of jiu-jitsu was it you learned? Helio: I remember vaguely that my brother Carlos was learning it from Konde Koma (Kosei Maeda) around 1914. Anyway I was just four years old at that time. To tell the truth, I don't remember well the technique directly taught by Koma. Carlos opened the dojo in Rio when he was 25 years old, and I was watching the techniques that he had learned from Konde Koma. But I kept thinking about what a small and weak man like me should do to win, and developing the theory to control an opponent by technique. Rorion: It seems my father didn't teach it to anybody in the beginning. But one day he had to teach the training in place of uncle Carlos who was late for the class. My father was only 16 years old yet, but the improvements my father made in the techniques to control an opponent with a minimum power was persuasive enough to satisfy the students. Since it doesn't require power, it makes it possible for you to fight for 20 or 30 minutes. After that, it seems that uncle Carlos left the teaching to my father. Nishi: That has become the base of Gracie jiu-jitsu of the day, hasn't it? Was a style Mr. Carlos learned from Kosei Maeda centering on "kata"? Helio: There weren't so many techniques. Most techniques were something mainly based on power. But Konde Koma was always fighting in real fights, so a lot of tricks to win in a real fight were incorporated in his teaching. Nishi: Striking was also included, wasn't it? Helio: No, it wasn't included. Kosei Maeda known by the name of Konde Koma was a judo-ka who got out of Japan to spread Kodokan Judo to the world in Meiji period, and performed an open fight with a different style in each country. (However, Kodokan removed his name from the register in the later years.) But why did he call it jiu-jitsu, not judo in Brazil? Nishi has secretly thought that jiu-jitsu introduced to Brazil might be something like a variant form of judo. Nishi: Did Mr. Maeda call it jiu-jitsu, not judo from the beginning? Helio: I heard that Konde Koma called it jiu-jitsu. We didn't even know the word of judo itself until it came into Brazil. At that time (the time when jiu-jitsu was brought by Konde Koma), there were many Japanese immigrants and local people had a friendly relationship with them. I heard that they often helped Japanese people in many ways. So I think he taught us their traditional jiu-jitsu in return for it. Nishi: When judo came into Brazil, didn't you think it was similar to jiu-jitsu? Rorion: I have a strong impression about judo that judo is a sport where the objective is to throw the opponent to the ground using power. But I think maybe the original art is jiu-jitsu. When Japan lost in the World War II and America was occupying Japan, they taught the Americans judo, but not jiu-jitsu. In that sense, we were lucky to have been able to come in contact directly with jiu-jitsu first, rather than judo. Helio: (nodding to what Rorion said) They didn't teach the Americans the mind of the samurai. Nishi: It doesn't seem that judo itself was completely introduced to you. I wonder if Kosei Maeda introduced something he made up and called jiu-jitsu, or if it had originality as a result of the improvements made by Mr. Helio. It draws my interest very much. Then, when is the start of vale tudo? Helio: It was not something like vale tudo, but the first fight between different styles was in 1932 when I fought with an American wrestling fighter named Fred Ebert when I had 17 years old. He described himself as a world-class strong fighter. It seems that Fred Ebert was a fighter who took second place in the 95kg class in the world wrestling championship held in New York in l928. This coincides with the story of Helio who described him as a giant with 98kg, but it turns out to have been nearly 40kg difference in weight between them. Helio's weight was about 60kg. Nishi: How about the result? Helio: (with a frown) The fight started at 12:00 at midnight, and fought until 2:00 in the morning. But we were told to stop the fight by the police. Rorion: The fight lasted 2 hours and 10 minutes. To tell the truth, he was stopped to fight by the doctor then due to the high fever caused by a swelling. Anyway he had to undergo an urgent operation next day of the fight. Nishi: It sounds...... (breaking off in his speech) .....reckless....... Helio: I didn't want to be said that I avoided the fight under the pretext of the doctor-stop. That's all. However, I regret that we couldn't get the result. Nishi: What if Mr. Ebert is in good health and challenged you to do the sequel to the fight now? Helio: I will do it, of course! (laugh) But he might need some handicap because he was pretty older than me. For Helio, who has such a "never say die" attitude toward a fight as mentioned above, I wonder what came to his mind when he threw in the towel in the fight of Royce [vs. Sakuraba in Pride Grand Prix 2000], his son, with his own hand. I wanted to ask him about it. But maybe there was something wrong in the way I started to question saying "I am sorry for the result of Royce, but....", they stuck to the answer made by Rorion, who was voluntarily working as an interpreter, that "No matter how nice a car you drive, it sometimes happens to you to get out of the course due to a puncture. Neither Shamrock nor Royce lost to anybody this time." (Helio speaks only Portuguese, so the interview was done in such a way that at first Nishi's words were conveyed to Rorion in English, and then Rorion conveyed it to Helio in Portuguese) However, I felt like that I saw Helio's deep attachment to fights in difference in words between Helio, who used simple and clear words, and Rorion, who used a metaphor. Nishi: Mr. Helio, did you have a favorite technique other than jiu-jitsu? Helio: Does it mean a technique in striking? I was good at side kicks. I did it in my own way, but kick the body of the opponent using the heel. Don't ask me to demonstrate it here now! (laugh) Nishi: No! (laugh) You said it was your own way, but did you study it watching the move of karate? Helio: Karate? No. Judo came to Brazil around 1950-1960 and Karate was later than that, maybe around 1970. So I had no chance to study it. Besides when I saw karate for the first time, I didn't think it was effective for self-defense or kakuto art. Nishi: Well then, do you think kakutogi based on striking are not effective for all? Helio: Generally they are not, are they? I think you know about it much better than I do. Rorion: In a fight like the Ultimate, all you have to do about striking is to kill the distance. If you do it, then you can control the fight. Nishi: They are at a disadvantage under the rule of the Ultimate for sure, but I can't agree with you who say positively that they are not effective from the view point of self-defense and kakuto arts either. Then, when did you start fighting with striking? Helio: I don't remember clearly, but jiu-jitsu was considered something oriental in Brazil and there was some guy saying that he could defeat me in a street fight. So I accepted the fight with him including punches and kicks. Nishi: Unbelievable! (laugh) He must have sorely regretted his words after the contest.! Was that the beginning of vale tudo? Helio: Maybe so. I'm the one who started vale tudo. But we didn't call it vale tudo. It was a TV producer who decided to call it that. Nishi: A TV producer? Helio: That's right. I held style vs. style tournaments to spread jiu-jitsu. Of course, I won all of them. The producer found them interesting and decided to telecast them. The title of that program was Vale Tudo. Later the form was changed to one-match fight between a winner of the jiu-jitsu tournament (it was held under the original jiu-jitsu rule and striking was prohibited) and a challenger invited from a different style. This program started around 1960 and became very popular. It used to be aired every week at one time. Nishi: It is a model of the Ultimate. Anyway, I'm surprised to see that it was the title of the TV program, and vale tudo was performed every week. What an amazing country Brazil is. Helio: Many people were scared of punches. But since they watched the fights on TV, they started to understand that punches were good, but they could be nullified by using different techniques, and a small man like me could fight. Nishi: I was doing judo and was afraid of getting punched. That's why I started learning striking and still now I am studying. Mr. Helio, did you have any fear of getting punched? Helio: If I get punched, I feel happy and more guts. But I feel pain too. (laugh) So I developed the way of fighting to avoid to get punched. Nishi: And at first you keep the position not to get punched, then give the opponent punches whenever you want to. Helio: That's right (laugh). Nishi: How about a throw? Throwing is not effective either? Helio: No, it can be very effective at times. Anyway, a fearful throw by Kimura remains vividly in mind. It was very impressive to see that Kimura made the opponent KOed with one throw. When it was decided that I would fight with Kimura, I was careful about his throw. Nishi: Could you tell me more details about the fight with the master Kimura? Helio: Sure! Helio: In the beginning I carefully tried to find a breakthrough, but I was in his control as soon as we stood close to each other. I had no time to even hold or grapple him. What I barely could do was to avoid his perfect throw in such a way that I relaxed the strength of all my body and moved my position a little bit at the moment when Kimura tried to throw me and as a result Kimura lost his balance. I was taken into the ground, and I got choked at first. It was difficult to breathe. I felt it working enough so I was wondering if I should tap as I promised Carlos. Nishi: ? Helio: Well, this is what I've never told anybody before. It seems I went unconscious while I was thinking about what to do [give up or not]. Naturally all the staff let alone Nishi were surprised to hear that, but what was more impressive than that was the shocked expression on Rorion's face. Helio: If Kimura had continued to choke me, I would have died for sure. But since I didn't give up, Kimura let go of the choke and went into the next technique. Being released from the choke and the pain from the next technique revived me and I continued to fight. Kimura went to his grave without ever knowing the fact that I was finished. If possible, I wish I could have talked about the fight with him and let him know about it. Nishi: I will tell his wife without fail. Helio: Thank you. But then, Kimura was strong....... strong and a gentleman. He spoke in my ear in Japanese "good, good" while catching me with arm-lock. I don't understand Japanese at all, but strangely I was encouraged by his voice. It gave me power. (laugh) I was anxious about it, so I asked him later. He said, "I was admiring your heart." Nishi: Kimura also talked about the fight with Mr. Helio in his book, and says that you had a strong heart. Helio: Same to him. I think I got the authentic samurai spirit from him. I might have been Japanese in a previous life. Nishi: By the way, what shall I do with my plan? I was prepared to do a challenge match here aiming at defeating a Gracie, but I touched the heart of the master Kimura in the talk with Mr. Helio. Now I've had one more teacher, Mr. Helio. Indeed, I must have been Brazilian in a previous life. Helio: Thank you. If you continue to train, you will be the champion in a jiu-jitsu tournament in Brazil for sure. Age? No problem. I am 82 years old now, but martial arts are what you search for at the risk of your whole life.